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Some other issues on my forums
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xDave
Germany
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Apr 4, 2014 - 4:49 am

Did you take a look? I didn´t find any bootstrap.js or bootstrap.min.js to be  loaded in the source code. But to be honest I dont even have a clue what exactly I´m looking for as well as I don´t always know, if I really understood anything on your Codex page (according to the fact, that I´m not native speaker).

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Yellow Swordfish
Glinton, England
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Apr 4, 2014 - 5:31 am

Sadly and for reasons I can not fathom, those that charge for their themes seem to be the worse at stomping all over the WordPress API.

Yes, of course I looked. Open a source view on a forum page and search for 'bootstrap' and search for 'jquery'. My own personal view is that you should consult with the theme author to eradicate the issues but whether that will bear any fruit I do not know.

The WP team have talked about putting checks in place to stop the use of thirds-party jquery and jquery.ui scripts but as yet have failed to come up with anything.

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xDave
Germany
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Apr 4, 2014 - 5:53 am

Hmm I see. The guys in the support forum of the theme told me the same you did :/

Does EVERYTHING which has bootstrap in its name have to be loaded before jQuery stuff?

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Yellow Swordfish
Glinton, England
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Apr 4, 2014 - 8:33 am

xDave said
Hmm I see. The guys in the support forum of the theme told me the same you did :/

What did they say? Would be interested to know exactly...

Does EVERYTHING which has bootstrap in its name have to be loaded before jQuery stuff?

To be honest I have no idea. I have not seen it broken up like that before. I do not use Bootstrap and never have. Whatever your theme authors say - Bootstrap JS overrides jQuery UI JS when it comes to control manipulation. I do not know which components. And whatever the theme guys said - the jQuer UI IS supported by WordPress. BootStrap is not.

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xDave
Germany
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Apr 7, 2014 - 11:17 am

Nevertheless bootstrap seems to be a major framwork actually to build templates. The guys told me their theme pass a "very tough TF standards" verification whatever that means.

See: http://support.skywarriortheme.....rap#Item_9

I found some bootstrap loads but all are BEFORE the jQuery stuff.

I also deactivated anything else on my page including the uploader but I wont get it working. That pretty much sucks because my members now have to take the way over the WP-Media Upload and not everyone wants/is able to do that.

As you perhaps saw, I´m doing a MMO Guild Page with WP. I always did that with joomla before but now I thought a more slim WP would be an advantage. But obviously I´m havin much more technical problems than I ever had before.

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Yellow Swordfish
Glinton, England
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Apr 7, 2014 - 12:00 pm

I have no idea what 'very tough TF standards' means either. But it has no relevance here.

Bootstrap is a javascript UI component library created by the Twitter development team and made available for public use. It is actually a very good and useful library and shows a lot of promise for the future.

However - as I have said before and will repeat again - it is NOT natively supported by WordPress. The jQuery UI library - which is an alternative to Bootstrap - IS the WordPress supported script UI library and no amount of meeting tough (unknown to me) standards is going to change that. The simple fact - again as already stated - is that Bootstrap components override jQuery UI components and render them inoperable. This can be overcome by loading the Bootstrap library first but even that is not really ideal.

Theme authors who insist on utilising Bootstrap are ignoring the WordPress standards and API. They and their users should really be lobbying the WordPress development team to support Bootstrap properly.

I believe on your site - if I recall correctly - the theme authors were also loading jQuery incorrectly (or perhaps it was another plugin). This action is also contrary to WP API and standards. It drives us wild that these people are also making money out of this flagrant disregard for their users.

I am afraid I don't really know what you mean by 'take the way over the WP-Media Upload'. Not really sure what an 'MMO Guild Page' is either come to that but that is probably just because I am an old fart.

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xDave
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Apr 7, 2014 - 12:23 pm

LOL^^

Okay in WP you can upload Media (images) for your Blogposts via the backend. This is what I meant.

MMO Guild Page ...erm..a page for a Community of players of an massively multiplayer online game. But nvm :)

I see that you both have the point "bootstap is not supportet by WP by default" but on the other side it is very popular for themes and I found no page which says that bootstrap is not recommended for use. On the other hand you find thousands of themes for WP generated with that framework.

When I look here at the support forum, I see that the uploader problem is one of the most common. So the long term question could be if you will, independently from what your preferations are, adapt the conditions and perhaps look over the upload plugin regarding to that bootstap thing...

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Yellow Swordfish
Glinton, England
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Apr 7, 2014 - 3:26 pm

The file uploader uses as it's core the plUpload library from Moxie. This is the exact same core that WordPress uses on the media uploader in the WP admin. Like WordPress itself, plUpload also makes use of jQuery and the jQuery UI.

While it is true that you will find quite a few threads regarding the uploader and Bootstrap it most also be noted that this represents an almost insignificant fraction of those who have downloaded and use the uploader.

If you are suggesting that plUpload utilises Bootstrap then I suggest you lobby Moxie.

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Mr Papa
Simi Valley, CA
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Apr 7, 2014 - 9:33 pm

not to be argumentative, but perhaps more insight... ;)

chicken and egg problem really...  wp includes jQuery UI with core...  by default, WP only uses it in the admin, but the API fully supports using it on the front end too - just like we do...  themes have largely gotten away with using bootstrap because they only load it on the front end...  and when bootstrap and jquery ui are both loaded, bootstrap will stomp on the wp api included jquery ui...  but any theme that loads bootstrap will have problems with any plugin in use that adds jquery ui to the front end...  and there numerous of those with similar reports...

so what is one to do??  hopefully, if bootstrap popularity grows, it will become fully supported by wp and proper loading order with jquery ui ensured..

which support forum were you looking at?  we have handful (or two at most) of conflicts with themes that load bootstrap...  a pretty low number really...  and as Andy said, its a 3rd party library so any such change to it would have to occur upstream...

If I were writing a theme that used bootstrap and was aware that it conflicted with the wp jquery ui, I would ensure that bootstrap was loaded after jquery ui since I was loading some js outside the wp provide libraries (yes, the api supports loading any js from outside wp)...  the above mentioned support topics have explained how to do that in the theme...

That said, thinking out loud, I wonder if we could also deregister jquery ui and then reregister it as dependency on bootstrap?  a bit hacky though since 99.9% of our installs wouldnt have such a dependency...  the problem with this implementation is that we would have to guess the handle for the theme loaded bootstrap... the theme can call it whatever they want... from the theme perspective, jquery ui is guaranteed to remain the same for any install since its part of wp core...

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xDave
Germany
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Apr 8, 2014 - 8:02 am

Oh. Its very hard for me to follow some of the complicated sentence of the last reply. To be honest I don´t really have a clue what you are talking about , sorry :(

I´m only a guy making a community page for about 50 ppl. I spent my own money in the membership here, in the theme, in the webserver. I can handle some php snippets, CSS and the Administration. But I am not earning anything with that. I´m doing it just for "fun". Finding and fixing errors is only the necessary evil for me.

When I don´t know a thing about something I go and buy the service for me in trust, that these professionals know their business. And after having spent about 100€ for this project (which is by far the most expensive page I ever did) I only want it to work as intended. Okay 95% of the functions work as intended, but this particular thing NOT working is gnawing...

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