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YS Yellow Swordfish
Yellow Swordfish
Member

I think this has got to change. The introduction of multiple Admins has made the current processing of 'unread' posts for those administering forums more difficult to keep track of what has and what has not been responded to.

I am not sure yet how I am going to approach this but one thing I am going to aim for in the QuickLinks. We currently show (for admins) posts that require moderation by a blue bullet and posts that are unread (and in the queue) with a red bullet. My aim will be to show posts that have been removed from the queue but unread by the current user with a black bullet.

However this will have to remain a list derived fromn the last time the user either logged out or was timed out through inactivity. This latter is currently set at 15 minutes and I propose changing it to 30 minutes.

9 Answers

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MP Mr Papa
Mr Papa
Member

does the dropdown have to be linked to the admin bar unread posts?  seems like they could be and should be separate entities.  seems like your color coding scheme (which sounds pretty good) would be better suited for the admin bar than the dropdown.  why cant the dropdown be wholly and only for each user independant of other users, including admins?

I guess I am still confused as to why the dropdown, for admins, has to even bother looking at the sfwaiting queue?  cant that just be left to the admin bar unread queue?

I must be missing something key as to why those are linked together…

YS Yellow Swordfish
Yellow Swordfish
Member

I don't think you are thinking it through. As already said, the dropdown IS fully personalised. It checks in sfwaiting (if the user is an admin/moderator) so that it can highlight those specific posts – especially those needing moderation. If we used the same code for admins as ordinary members, posts waiting approval would not even show up. Even you have said in the past that you find the bullets and colour coding useful – that's due to the sfwaiting check.

If we only did this in the admin bar then the problem I am having with dual admins would just be exacerbated even further.

Of course, an alternative and much 'easier to code' solution would be to only allow posts to be removed from sfwaiting via the admin bar tools. This is a solution, in terms of our support forum here, that I rather like but it would change the way it has worked in the past and might not appeal to all current users. There again – it could be an option…

Thoughts on that?

MP Mr Papa
Mr Papa
Member

wait… are you saying that normal users dont get a topic turned red for unread posts in the dropdown???  clearly they dont get the blue ones.  never knew that if its the case…

yes, I absolutely love the color coding of topics in the dropdown, but I would never have thought that someone besides myself could turn a topic from red to black. I had thought that if I had a blue topic (needs moderation) and another admin approved it, that it would change and show up as red in my dropdown (not black) since I still havent read it.

We seem to have pretty much the exact same issue, just in two different spots.

Frankly, I would be quite fine with posts needing moderation not showing up in the dropdown.  I really want that for a list of topics that I havent read yet.  The admin bar could still be used for post moderation with its blue number.  Might be another one that doesnt appeal to everyone.  I would image some single admin sites turn off the admin bar and just use the dropdown.

So with your suggestion, If I view a page, not from the admin bar, will it change from red to black (read to unread)?  So, the only way to get the red count number to go down, would be to view the post in the admin bar?  think you are right, that would not be well received and dont think I would like it either.

hmm…  I am gonna have to burn a few more brain cells on this one.

YS Yellow Swordfish
Yellow Swordfish
Member

I don't really know how to respond to this one because I still think you are confusing things. Although I can tell you that yes – users (and Guests when we can do it) DO get a red bullet in the dropdown.

Can we just forget the dropdown for a while and concentrate on the admin bar? I agree that this is not of use to all of our users and it really does depend on what sort of forum you are operating. The type that is a 'community' discussion type board may well not care – especially if they do not use moderation. And that is the reason a user can completely turn off the admin queue and not use it.

However, for a forum like ours here – or like Olivers at Delicious Days (cForms support) – it IS important to keep track of which posts have and have not been answered. Every post has to be specifically responded to by one of us – that is the responsibility we have taken on – so it is important. This is also the reason we have expended so much time and effort on making the admin bar useful and why, for V4, I have recoded it all to allow for multiple topic posts to be shown, mass approvals and even a reply edit box. I do not see what on earth the difference is between a new post that needs approval or a new post that does not. They both need the attention of one of us and they both need to be answered.

Going back over old ground again I may be but it is important. The move in V4 to multiple admins while itself a good and positive move, has dynamically changed the way the admins queue works. As a single admin up until this point, I always ensured that a post was only removed from the queue when I was ready to respond to it. Failure to do that ran the risk of forgetting to do so or, on a busy day, the post disappearing off of the radar altogether. I believe we have never had a post that went ignored.

Now, however, we have two admins and you have a different methodology. In opening new posts from any other source they get removed from the queue (because you are an admin viewing that post) but you do not necessarily respond to them. They no longer exist in the queue and run the risks descibed above. In fact in the short time that V4 has been live there have been at least two posts that waited 2 days for an answer because I completely lost track of them. (I ended up working through all the admin email notifications and checking each and every one).

This is NOT a criticism of the way you work – it is, to my mind a flaw that has been inroduced by the new circumstances and a flaw that needs attention and plugging. My suggestion – in post 3 above – was an attempt to propose a way that this could be achieved. (In fact, you seemed to come very nearly to the same proposal in post 2 when you said “does the dropdown have to be linked to the admin bar unread posts?  seems like they could be and should be separate entities.  seems like your color coding scheme (which sounds pretty good) would be better suited for the admin bar than the dropdown.”)

NOW let's get back to the dropdown. It is a list of the most recent posts (the number of which is set by the user) that shows, by highlighting them with a colour, those that have been added to the forum since your last visit/login. If you happen to be an admin or moderator, it also shows those awaiting approval. If you are a member or a guest it doesn't.

What it is NOT, to my mind, is a fullproof method of ensuring that every post gets an answer. And if you read the method by which new posts are dealt with (in the online help and also agreed by us a long time back) it is plain that this is the case.

RA -Radio-
-Radio-
Member

An issue I am having, related to this, is that the admin posts waiting cue is not appearing for Moderators.

This isn’t so much and issue here, but in MU, where my main account is a site admin account. In my setup the site admin only has moderator rights and I’d like to be able to clear any held posts without switching accounts.

I have already successfully moderated awaiting posts here, but the process is laborious.

I had to first find the post, which did show up in the drop-down menu, then open it in the editor to read it. Only then could I make the decision to approve it, so I canceled the edit, and then marked it approved.

also… still getting the math required in this forum.

YS Yellow Swordfish
Yellow Swordfish
Member

Then that is also a moderator based problem and I’ll raise a ticket for this as well.

MP Mr Papa
Mr Papa
Member

yeah, slight oversite in the multi admins… the admin bar options were moved so each admin could selectively choose whether or not to see the admin bar along with a few other options.

I think the best/easiest fix is to just give moderators access to that option page and have their own unique options.  I believe they all could apply to moderators too.

Those options are in one of the tabs in the Manage Admins panel which currently can only be accessed by admins.  Easy enough to allow access to that one tab though.  Can even store the options in the admin options column in the members table – dont really think that is a big naming issue.

However, should the panel be renamed?  Manage Admins/Mods?  instead of just Manage Admins?  seems like it might be confusing to find the moderator options on a page named Manage Admins.  thoughts?

MP Mr Papa
Mr Papa
Member

I have gone ahead and commited to svn fixes that allow moderators access to admin bar and few other admin options.  when folks feel comfortable with the changes, I can svn update here to test further.

oh, Andy, we have exchanged a couple of emails on the admin bar.  think we are good for you going off and implementing the changes.

YS Yellow Swordfish
Yellow Swordfish
Member

Mr Papa said:

However, should the panel be renamed?  Manage Admins/Mods?  instead of just Manage Admins?  seems like it might be confusing to find the moderator options on a page named Manage Admins.  thoughts?


Found it! I vote for leaving it as it is…. Really don't like the 'Mods' contraction…