Support Forum
I have had an smf forum since 2010.
I now have 3068 members and the forum averages 229 posts/day with a total post count of 432,821. I'm guessing it may be a medium sized forum? My forum is a support group for betrayed spouses and I offer a private forum for paying subscribers—some of their spouses find their posts, but most are not subscribers and post on the public forum.
I am looking at building an e-course using the zippy courses plugin—it is relatively new and like Simple:Press, not on the Wordpress repository. As I build my course I am also realizing it would be good to add BuddyPress for the classes as well as for paying forum subscribers. I've had a blog on Wordpress since 2011, but it is a separate install from where Zippy Courses and BuddyPress are—that is new because I'm playing around and in the learning and testing phases with those.
I love smf, but it is not integrated with Wordpress and any bridge plugins I've found have not been kept up and do not do all that I might need, so I think I need to look into something where my people can register at a single site.
I only found Simple:Press a couple days ago, so I am just starting to think about this and my people will probably not want a change—I've been resisting it as well, even though I've been looking around for a few months.
I've downloaded and activated the plugin so I can play with it a bit, but understandably I can't really get a feel since it's not the real forum with all the people. I created all the groups from my smf forum and the forums that go in them. My smf stats say I have 20 forums, but only 3 boards are for conversational posting: Public, Private, Mentor-Moderator. I've also created a few basic user groups and set up the permissions.
So I've got some basic questions about Simple:Press.
Some questions about migrating and some questions about after a migration.
Basic Questions
Icons
I've read a few others asking about icons and you've said we can upload our own, but I guess I need to understand how...I only sort of get it. And I understand that this is probably a support issue, I just need assurance that I can do what I want once I have that access to more help.
Topic icons are a huge deal for me. At my forum we use them to designate story threads versus topic threads. Stories are a user's personal journal and topics are more general, anyone may start a topic, but it isn’t considered as belonging to the starter. At smf the system doesn’t really understand that the icons have meaning and for each board there is a default icon which all posts revert to even if the initial icon is something else.
Urls
I noticed that the url for the test thread I created had the board name in it. I can't have urls with the board name in it because threads are archived to different boards after being locked or when inactive or they may be moved between the public and private board depending on subscriptions. This was an issue in the past when we tried out pretty urls which messed us up and when we went back to the other format I had to assemble a team of volunteers to go through posts and change urls that were in the pretty format. Story threads are locked at 150 posts and the previous thread url is added to the first post and the new thread url is added to the last post. Ideally I would like a plugin that could connect a person's story threads, but that's a big deal I think and for now manually adding the next and previous works—IF the urls don’t have board name in them.
This brings me to the migration dilemma. Simple:Press will be at a different url than my smf forum which means all of the links to threads in the forum will be wrong! The project editing pretty urls was 3 or 4 years ago; we have a lot more threads now—though I’ll do what I must. But I do wonder if a custom plugin could be made for migrating that could recognize all urls from the smf forum in posts and match and edit them to the new url.
Private Messages
I understand that PMs are through a plugin, but then will the PMs from my current board be able to transfer over?
Registration
I've read your answers about registration being through Wordpress. I've never had registration at my wordpress sites, so I don't have experience with how it works other than recently creating a few test accounts. Does it mean that everyone who registers is also registering (being given membership at the forum?) It seems I've read you saying that is not the case, but I don't think I'm understanding. If it were just my forum, then the only thing to register for would be the forum, but with e-courses some people may not want to be a part of the forum and I just wonder if registering does give them that (meaning they have to agree to my TOS), they will not sign up for the course—probably a minor issue.
Profiles
Are profiles synched or can they be synched with wordpress or does Simple:Press just use the wordpress profile? Smf offers custom profiles as a built-in feature, but if I move here I think could make even more improvements.
Pruning and Archiving
Is there a plugin available for moving batches of threads at once or must this be done manually? I'm lucky to have a team of volunteers who do this for me. Locked threads go into the archives forum for their year or for topics, inactive threads go to an inactive forum. I have a plugin at smf that helps me when I'm doing it—is it has not been done and there are a lot. But I did mess up once a few years ago and put subscription threads on a public board and we then had to manually go through and determine which were supposed to be private—it was a nightmare.
Migration
When I do a real migration, do the categories automatically translate to the groups and the usergroups to usegroups? And other stuff as well...?
I guess I'm thinking that as I play with the new install there could be things I set-up and like better than what I have at smf (and some I don't), but I would then lost that stuff wouldn’t I?
Would I migrate to a blank forum that I haven’t played with, or can a migration be to a forum that is formatted and designed, but empty—no users other than me and no topics?
Profile migration: If I want to make new profile questions to replace those from smf, how do I do this—will the smf stuff migrate or can some things equal some.
Here's why I'm asking. I have several questions that require dates, but smf doesn't have a calendar for that and so it's just write-in with the system not getting it's a date. On Wordpress I might be able to have a calendar pop-up for users to select a date and if I can have this I want it to replace the smf write-in. Is this something you know anything about—such as how to migrate that when I want to change it?
Maybe I just need to encourage users to review and update their profiles if I migrate—a reason many may not like the change! And if profiles are through wordpress, it's not something for you to answer anyway!
I know I have more questions—I keep thinking of them and forgetting when away from the computer. So I will ask more as I think of them.
If you have any advice or things I need to consider about a move from smf, please let me know. This is not something I am doing right away, but it is important that I research and test other options.
Thank you,
wow, lots of questions... 🙂 will try to work through them...
first, on our download page, you can get an importer for SMF... its probably a 'lite' importer... will bring over forums, topics, posts, etc... but does not get attachments, and perhaps other low level stuff... if you really need to get the whole forum moved over, we usually suggest http://gconverters.com/ which according to our users does a very good job.. we are not affiliated with them in any way...
Icons... not sure what you mean - seems you mean the icons next to groups, forums and topics... each of our themes provides a default set of icons that get used (we provide normal, unread and locked icons)... you can upload custom icons for each via the wp admin (forum - forums - custom icons)... however, if you want to pick a custom icon per topic, that is not currently supported, but we do have a ticket to add that functionality some day...
urls... Afraid we have no option currently to use other than the forum name in url... we do have an add on plugin (paid for by user) that allows you to use the topic id instead of the topic name in a url... I would imagine (but havent looked) that its not a big extension to do similar for forums (just never been asked for)...
urls... if there is a consistent 'method' to the old urls vs new urls, I would imaging a mysql script could be written to change the urls within the database post content...
PMs... Its highly unlikely that your current PMs could be migrated over... at least we have never done it (again, first request)... would be a good question for the gconverter folks I mentioned above...
registration... there are no forums users and no forum registration... that is the realm of the wp site... as a plugin for wp, we simply use the users on the wp site.. there are many ways to handle site registration.. typically, if you want members only area, forum and potentially public areas, the use of a wp membership plugin works well... since the forum uses its own permission system, you can completely control access to various parts of the forum and it will not impact who can access other parts of the site (assuming that membership plugin)..
pruning... we do have a prune database plugin but that allows you to remove topics in large batches with some date filters... however, it does not allow you to move them en masse to another forum... we also have a topic expiration plugin that will auto move topics to another forum (ie archive forum) after a specified date... but if the desire is to move after set number of posts in the topic, afraid we dont currently have that - though again, certainly feasible to modify the plugin allow that... we have a robust api (much like wp) that can be extended many, many ways...
profiles... we have a custom profile field plugin that allows you to add additional fields to a user profile for them to fill in.. migrating info from SMF profiles will not be accomplished via our importer - again a good question for the gconverter folks...
hope that helps... please feel free to come back with any follow ups or more questions..
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Thank You so much!
Icons
Mr Papa said
Icons... not sure what you mean - seems you mean the icons next to groups, forums and topics... each of our themes provides a default set of icons that get used (we provide normal, unread and locked icons)... you can upload custom icons for each via the wp admin (forum - forums - custom icons)... however, if you want to pick a custom icon per topic, that is not currently supported, but we do have a ticket to add that functionality some day...
I mean the topic icons. As I said, I am in no rush, but if I choose to switch to Simple:Press and this ticket has not been resolved, would I be able to request a plugin for it?
Urls
Mr Papa said
urls... Afraid we have no option currently to use other than the forum name in url... we do have an add on plugin (paid for by user) that allows you to use the topic id instead of the topic name in a url... I would imagine (but havent looked) that its not a big extension to do similar for forums (just never been asked for)...urls... if there is a consistent 'method' to the old urls vs new urls, I would imaging a mysql script could be written to change the urls within the database post content...
the smf format for urls is topdomain.com/index.php?topic=(and then it has what I assume is the ID number). So if you can match that format it might make changing the addresses much easier because the only thing needing to be changed would be the topdomain portion.
I had to do something similar when I switched domains for my blog years ago and it was in mysql--which freaked me out a bit. I think I eventually found a plugin, but it was still pretty freaky and might have involved some manual work, but I got it done in the end--the blog was not very big relative to the forum.
I was initially thinking of the urls people manually put in their posts to other posts--theirs or others. But there are the urls that come embedded in quotes too...those would need to be included. They might be found by the same process, but this would need to be checked I guess.
Is there an option for users to view all of the pages of a thread? Smf has this option and the url just adds ;all after the topic ID.
Registration
The zippy courses plugin focuses on e-courses, but it is meant to function as a member plugin, I just need to contact them with more questions. They also provide the WP theme because it is specific to e-courses.
Migration
Gconverters looks awesome! I pictured having to do it myself and not knowing what I'm doing has made stuff like this something to avoid!
This may be a question for them or you:
When do I add the plugins that I need, before or after a migration? Or does this depend on whether some things migrating are through a plugin like PMs versus changing urls which can be done at anytime?
An icon plugin (if the ticket is not resolved) would need to be in place; I don't even want to imagine 4700 topics with no icon that would need someone to manually ad an icon later. UGH
Archiving/Pruning
It sounds like this is doable with a custom plugin and it's not a deal killer or priority.
Profiles
I will definitely as Gconverters about these.
Is there a way to make profiles searchable by users? Many want to find others in situations with greater similarities to their own and follow those threads.
Now for a dream plugin involving icons and profiles:
- Thread/Topic list sortable by topic icon (and other columns)
- Synch Topic Icons that are story-books to profile: Synched to a profile question and a person will only have that story-book icon as their story icon—no other story books will be shown in the list. (There are 3 presently 3 story-book icons)
- Icons of someone who posts on the private board and then moves to the public (or vice versa) will automatically revert to the matched story-icon for that board—the private board icons have a P on the story-book page.
- Icons do not change on old (locked) threads if a person changes their profile and the topic (story-book) icon changes.
If a person changes her profile mid-thread, a mod can change the icon...consider sending an automated PM to me and lead mod and the person if this happens. Lead mod or I can then ask if they want us to change the topic icon on the initial post of their thread.
I don't know if any of that is possible, but the sorting and linking to the profile would be cool.
I can add a few quick answers...
Topic Icons: Yes - it would be doable as a plugin. Main issue I can see is who is allowed to upload a new icon and adopt it into a topic.
Forum URLs: We could not accommodate that particular url structure you showed above. Switching to using IDs is quite simple but the way that things work we would need to have the forum ID as well as the topic ID in the URL. OK - it IS doable but it would mean some major re-working and testing and I think we would rather not change this.
Profile Searching: Not at the moment but it IS in Mr Papa's current top ten list of items he wants to develop so who knows...
Dream Plugin: We would need some very, very detailed information before we could come even close to working out what would be needed to achieve anything like this.
I am not trying to be difficult or put you off here but I do feel I need to say it just so we all know where we stand and to be fair to your decision making - but - while we may adopt ideas from other forum applications that we like, that work and feel are appropriate for Simple:Press, such features are re-worked and re-designed to fit the SP model. We can not and will not ever try and make SP look or function just like another application. I think the URLs above are a good case in point here. Yes it would be possible but we would be very, very reluctant to consider changing such a fundamental core building block.
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Thanks,
Urls
Yellow Swordfish said
Forum URLs: We could not accommodate that particular url structure you showed above. Switching to using IDs is quite simple but the way that things work we would need to have the forum ID as well as the topic ID in the URL. OK - it IS doable but it would mean some major re-working and testing and I think we would rather not change this.
I am not trying to be difficult or put you off here but I do feel I need to say it just so we all know where we stand and to be fair to your decision making - but - while we may adopt ideas from other forum applications that we like, that work and feel are appropriate for Simple:Press, such features are re-worked and re-designed to fit the SP model. We can not and will not ever try and make SP look or function just like another application. I think the URLs above are a good case in point here. Yes it would be possible but we would be very, very reluctant to consider changing such a fundamental core building block.
Not difficult at all. There are so many things I need to consider that in some ways I want you to talk me out of it or at least highlight all of the challenges I will face. For my users the forum is a lifeline and second home in their time of trauma and many are there for years.
I don't want ot copy smf, but there are some features that are important.
The format of urls being like is not as important as us being able to maintain a url as we move topics to the archive forum or private board. I only mentioned the smf format as an example of topic id in the url and then had the thought that if that precise format is possible (and probable) it would make changing the urls form an old domain to new domain significantly simpler.
Are you saying that any plugin would still have to have the forum id as part of the url?
How does this work if the topic is moved to a different forum? Does the url change or kep the url of the original forum. What is important is that the urls don't change. If they don't change, does that confuse the system? If they don;t change when moved across forums, I don;t know that a plugin would be needed--other than something that can change old urls to the new urls.
I research moving to wordpress every few months and then give up. But I keep returning because I imagine the hassle it will be for me and others to have multiple logins. It will mean a lot of tedious and manual work for me monitoring who has paid at one location to manually give them subscriber status at the other. And I think it will confuse people and could turn them off from subscribing or at least form the extra features at wordpress being an incentive to subscribe.
I looked at BBPress and found it almost laughable. I loaded it once to ;play with it and didn't even get to good categories which was the first thing I tried. Yours is the first I have seen that is a real forum integrated into WP.
The Smf advisors are usually the best I've ever encountered EXCEPT when it comes to people asking about bridging with Wordpress. They then become rude and tell people it's not needed because smf can do everything WP can do. Maybe that is true for someone with skills, but it's not for me.
I've considered having a bridge custom built, but it would be better if everything were just at one place.
Yellow Swordfish said
I can add a few quick answers...Topic Icons: Yes - it would be doable as a plugin. Main issue I can see is who is allowed to upload a new icon and adopt it into a topic.
Well, for what I want no one other than me should be able to do this. I have a specific set of icons I use and no more. I have added a few upon suggestions--two story books to show reconciliation phases and an icon for threads about setting up a meet-up. My mods want more story books, but I'd rather filter these through profile fields and a search function.
And a profile search is not a must, it's something I know is doable by plugin because I've heard of it, but I don't have it now so it's no loss to not have it until later.
How does this work if the topic is moved to a different forum? Does the url change or kep the url of the original forum. What is important is that the urls don't change. If they don't change, does that confuse the system? If they don;t change when moved across forums, I don;t know that aplugin would be needed--other than something that can change old urls to the new urls.
I'm not sure here if you're referring to moving cross domain or within Simple Press. If you are asking if when a topic is moved from one forum to another within Simple Press then yes - I'm pretty sure it will have to contain at least the new forum ID.
well not so much the ID but - as things stand currently - the forum slug. And yes - the downside to that comes with embedded links in posts. We could possibly add code as a filter to a move operation that attempted to correct any embedded topic links but I would have to test that and check on any wrinkles that may occur...
Interesting what you say about SMF - which, incidentally, has always been my personal favourite of the big stand-alone forum apps. But am not sure of the suggestion that it can do everything that WP does. But for big, serious forum usage it is a good choice I think.
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Ike said
How does this work if the topic is moved to a different forum? Does the url change or kep the url of the original forum. What is important is that the urls don't change. If they don't change, does that confuse the system? If they don;t change when moved across forums, I don;t know that aplugin would be needed--other than something that can change old urls to the new urls.
I'm not sure here if you're referring to moving cross domain or within Simple Press. If you are asking if when a topic is moved from one forum to another within Simple Press then yes - I'm pretty sure it will have to contain at least the new forum ID.
I'm talking about moving within Simple:Press. We regularly move locked or old threads to the Archives category/group and each of those has it's own year. We also have an inactive board/forum and a locked or inactive topic forum in the archives group.
Yellow Swordfish said
well not so much the ID but - as things stand currently - the forum slug. And yes - the downside to that comes with embedded links in posts. We could possibly add code as a filter to a move operation that attempted to correct any embedded topic links but I would have to test that and check on any wrinkles that may occur...
That is probably a beter solution than what I was thinking. It would need to search the entire forum (all groups). Would that be too much?
I was thinking of a terrible idea--I think it would be a big resource load. Every so often :hours, days... the system could check for broken links (internal broken links) and correct them. But I think that is a bad idea! Would the sytem recongize an old url and be able to match it to a new url? Often people name several threads the same thing--a few add I, II, III, but not everyone.
Yellow Swordfish said
Interesting what you say about SMF - which, incidentally, has always been my personal favourite of the big stand-alone forum apps. But am not sure of the suggestion that it can do everything that WP does. But for big, serious forum usage it is a good choice I think.
I love smf and to be honest feel a bit guilty at even thinking of leaving.
Perhaps I can help by answering a question you have not really asked...
WordPress - and by extension Simple:Press - URLs are dynamic. They are not stored anywhere as such but are matched at run time to a specific set of database records. SO if a topic thread is moved to a different forum then there is no url to update as such - it simply gets found by the combination of forum 'slug' and 'topic 'slug'.
When I was suggesting that it would be possible to search for a url in post content to change it if necessary then that is is really referring to the forum slug part. It would be a fairly straightforward search query and update although for a busy forum with lots and lots of posts it could take several seconds to run.
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One of my dream/fantasy plugins wold not really solve the url issue, but it would solve the important part. Though like I say, it's a fantasy because it's so elaborate.
Part of the fantasy icon plugin I mentioned and linking profiles would be that the system would also automatically add a final post or something after the last post to a locked story thread (so the system needs to recognize a difference between story book icons and the others) with a link to the next story thread and a first post--or something to the first post or something above the first post of a new story thread with a link to the previous story thread.
I guess there is a lite version where the system doesn't recongize topic icons, but just puts the most recent or next thread even if it's a topic thread or a lite advanced where the poster, when starting a new thread, is asked if this is a story thread and then asked to select (from a drop down or something) which of their previous threads should be linked as the previous and that previous thread would then automatically get a final post with the new story thread link. I don't know if I'm explaining it clearly.
That might be a major plugin, but it seems a lot less elaborate than my fantasy icon and profile synched plugin. The only drawback is that links in posts would not be affected, but those are not waht are most important.
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