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Hi
I am not as technically gifted as my pal Conrad Farlow but we work on the same form. We have a problem and I can make observations but cannot offer technical details as such.
- When I visit the forum sometimes there are flags (group view) and sometimes not, but I can see that there are new posts by looking at the time/date stamp
- When I log out and visit sometimes there are flags (group view) and sometimes not
- When I re-launch Firefox (v5.0.1 - my choice) and visit sometimes there are flags (group view) and sometimes not
- When I hit <f5> it sometimes shows flags that were previously not there
- We enabled "Unread and recently updated topics" and it shows new posts, but there were no corresponding flags (group view)
- Under "Unread and recently updated topics" I currently have many "view new posts in this topic" buttons, all of which I know I have read. If I click just one of these and then hit the back button sometimes they ALL disappear, sometimes not.
I realise this is not easy to interpret, but my main point is that it is rather random and intermittent. It's easy enough for us admins to get over this, but many (most?) of our users would have no chance.
I hate to mention other forums, but all of those that I use automatically update all flags whenever I re-visit. So it suggests to me (the uninitiated, yes, just say it :)) that it might be a cache issue of some sort?
I'll leave it at that for the moment, hopefully we can get somewhere.
I would also add that WP/SP is briilliant, and the support too. Well done y'all. I admin on many but this is by far the best to work with.
thanks
paul4
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Are you an admin on this site? Do you use the admin bar plugin?
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YELLOW
SWORDFISH
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Yes he is an admin and no he doesn't use the admin bar.
I think that the biggest problem is understanding the mechanism used to report a new post to a user. What is the trigger if say someone has left a page open and returns to it? Will hitting F5 always trigger a reset.
I think the point that Paul is trying to make is that it does not seem to work quite the same as phpBB newposts or one or two other forums.
I think that the problem is not functionality but misconceptions about how it should be used. Most people don't ever log out and use a combination of bookmarks etc.
I have a feeling that our membership plug-in may be causing some issues as well. We now use WP eMember
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we tried explaining how they work here: http://wiki.simple-press.com/f.....ost-lists/
and have had discussions with others on other implementations but never have had a workable design... still open to ideas, but need input on reasonable scheme that maintains performance aspects...
Visit Cruise Talk Central and Mr Papa's World
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Sorry, been away for a while (and I thought I had a subscription to this topic, but no notifications 
, likely my mistake)
Will digest later, thanks
paul4
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The reason I asked about being an admin and using the admin bar is because this can cause some confusion - especially if the admin bar is active (i.e.,, the admin's 'postbag' is operational) but not all designated forum admins are using the admin bar tools.
Once the admin bar and admin's postbag are turned on for use it requires the forum admin(s) to manually deal with the items in the postbag. Posts need to be approved and removed from the postbag. This is a great tool for ensuring all posts are checked, read and replied to if necessary but they do need removing when finished with. Any posts still in the postbag - even if they have physically been read - will continue to be shown as unread for all of the admins on the site.
So - the obvious first question has to be - could this be the mechanism that is causing confusion and what appears to be 'read' posts remaining marked as 'unread'?
The second point I would like to make is that I will not claim this is bullet-proof. It is a fragile area that can easily get upset by other changes and is constantly being monitored. However, claims that it 'doesn't work' are not that helpful simply because of the complexity and inter-connectedness of the code running things. If you feel there is an issue we really do need steps that we can replicate.
And lastly - making comparisons with other forums has no benefit as SP is none of those. Big, stand-alone forums like phpBB and vBulletin etc., will always be able to do things that SP can not do that easily as we are still constrained by our WordPress environment which offers both good and bad possibilities. There is also a need to try and maintain performance. As Steve intimated above, there has been an open challenge in these forums for someone to design and model a better system than we currently employ for unread post handling that does not consume megabytes of database storage. To date - nobody has come forward with anything. But I live in hope.
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YELLOW
SWORDFISH
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I think that I know where the main issue lies after reading that page Steve so thanks for posting it.
I believe that the principle difference here is that when a period of inactivity occurs and a user is deemed to have left the forum then any posts that they have not read but that were deemed as unread when they logged in are effectively lost. This is perceived as a functionality issue because it differs from phpBB which is what most of our users will have been exposed to first. In phpBB I believe that unread posts remain unread posts until you read them. There may be a time limit but it appears not. I can see why you couldn't just leave it accumulating forever, you would end up with a very bloated table.
So maybe the answer is to find what is workable and allow admins to set the expiry time. It would be very dependant on site traffic.
I also believe that a reload of the group view should refresh the list of unread post, or even a refresh unread posts button?
If we had those we would have something that would work as the users expect.
It is an interesting situation that's for sure.
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Every page load refreshes the list.
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YELLOW
SWORDFISH
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I had not read your post Andy when I made mine. However I will have to take issue with you on one point. Despite the technical reasons for not being able to implement something like phpBB it does not change users expectations one jot. They simply expect things to be the same and I am constantly fielding 'it does not work' type questions.
There are many things that they like about Simple Press of course but they are active on other standalone forums. You do not need to sell the concept to me at all, but we have to address this perception somehow. If it requires me to educate users then I will do that, it is part of my responsibility as an admin, however I really would like to find a way to change peoples perceptions.
Paul's observations are extremely typical, he is trying to explain what it happening but of course it is complex and very difficult to articulate. Until I read the page Steve just posted I did not understand what was going on either. Now I do.
So we have to figure out a way of 'fooling' people by using their habits to help us. I think we can get this working and I do see the issues from your perspective.
I reiterate it is a very interesting problem.
Conrad
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